Speaker: [00:00:00] Welcome to Major Project Podcast. I’m Orion Matthews and I’m excited to share this episode with you Today. We interviewed Ahmed. He’s this amazing guy who has been involved in multi-billion dollar projects for a long time. He, he ran Microsoft’s campus for quite some time, but the conversation really took an interesting turn because he.

Got his PhD and he had, for his thesis work, he was looking at how, uh, employees performance is measured. And I think this really weaves its way into our conversation. We start to really focus on people and you can just see that a super networker like this and how he manages to connect people’s careers with managing these billion dollar projects.

And, and, and it’s a really fascinating conversation. So I hope you enjoy, thanks so much for being a listener. 

Orion Matthews: Ahmed is a senior PMO and project controls leader with over a decade of experience [00:01:00] delivering large scale capital projects across healthcare, life sciences, and technology sectors. He’s held director level roles at Turner and Townsend Cummings Group exp, CBRE, and over overseeing multi-billion dollar programs for Fortune 500 clients and LED teams across the us.

Uh, recently I believe he’s been playing a key role in managing a multi-billion dollar campus program. Leading project controls for life science r and d project in San Diego, and also the PMO for a healthcare construction program totaling nearly a billion dollars in southern California. Achmed brings an international perspective as well, having supported capital project initiatives in, uh, Saudi Arabia, and more specifically Egypt.

Earlier in his career. He specializes in establishing governance frameworks, cost management, SOPs, and driving operational efficiencies across all sorts of teams and complicated programs. Achmed, welcome to the podcast. [00:02:00] 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Thank you. I’m excited about it. Thank you. 

Orion Matthews: All right. Well, before we get started, I’d love to learn a little bit more about your history.

Maybe you could share with us how you got into the major project space. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: No, definitely. So first, thank you for inviting me. I’m really excited about this podcast. Actually, you covered most of my background already. Uh, but, uh, you know, I can start actually with my education and background. So I graduated and got my bachelor and master degree in structure Engineering.

So I used to be a structure engineer. Uh, then I decided to shift to the construction management world. I got my PhD in construction management out of per university in Indiana. Also, like I focused more on the cost part of the business, so I got my RICS certification, uh, also the PMP, you know, so that, that’s more on the, you know, academic and the certification side.

However, I’ve been like on the old sides of the table. So I was on the engineering side when I was a structure engineer. [00:03:00] Uh, I was on the contractor side, I was on the subcontractor side. I worked for a little bit also on the client side. However, for the past decade, I’ve been on the owner rep side, which is the consulting for the project management and product controls.

I enjoy it. I like it, you know, on this side I advise clients I, you know, act on their behalf. I support their decisions. So I like it, being on this side. I’ve worked for the top company that you mentioned, you know, in the, in this world. So yeah, and, and to answer your question, how did I, jump into the mega construction, uh, projects?

I would say I was a little bit lucky, uh, after my PhD when I received an offer from CBRE to be the cost manager for. Microsoft Portfolio, in Redmond, Washington for the Puget Sound area, all the capital planning projects. Uh, and then like I spent there four, five months where, you know, they were building their [00:04:00] large campus in Redmond, Washington.

So I got promoted. I was the program controls manager for this campus for four years. For me, it’s a very interesting project, very interesting to work with different project management team, different contractors, you know, just being on the program management side. I learned a lot on this, you know, program.

I met a lot of, uh, decentralized people to work with, uh, that are still in contact with till now, so, and then, you know, after that I, uh, the product was ramping down, you know, I got another offer to. Lead the project controls for, uh, I would say a top pharmaceutical client in San Diego on the west coast still, but it’s in Southern California.

So I moved to Southern California. I spent two years there before moving back with, you know, with CBRE again on a healthcare program. And now I’m leading the, uh, driving life science, projects for Turner and thousand on the west [00:05:00] coast and supporting other mega construction project across the US as well.

Orion Matthews: That’s an impressive background and a wonderful story. I can’t wait to get into some of the lessons you have to share with us. Real quick, just curious, what was your PhD thesis on? 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Oh, okay. Okay. That’s an interesting topic. So it was split to two parts. The first one was more related to the CSR corporate social responsibility.

And the other part of it would be the performance of, uh, employees. So I was really interested and, you know, on the social responsibility, uh, of, you know, all the corporates, how do they give back to the community and at the same time to their employees, uh, whether from a social perspective or even to enhance their performance and make, you know, their, uh, I would say their, their people happy and enjoy doing their jobs.

Orion Matthews: Wow. You must be a great boss with that background. [00:06:00] 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Thank you. 

Orion Matthews: Alright, well let’s get into the topic of resource planning first, if you will. ’cause I know this scenario you have a lot of passion for, so, 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: yep. 

Orion Matthews: I was thinking maybe we could just start with a definition, really 1 0 1, like when I say resource planning, maybe it’s not what you’re thinking and other people are thinking.

So tell, tell me what you think resource planning encompasses. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yeah. No, definitely. And, and actually when, when you just mentioned, you know, to me that the topic, the first topic would be like resource planning. Like, you know, it just, I got so excited because it’s about the resources on the product and in our word when we say resources, it’s us, the people, right?

We are the number one resource for the product. Uh, we run the project, we manage the project, we make sure, you know, everything is going well. So if you’re not planning your resources, you know, correctly, then the project would go south. So just definition for [00:07:00] resource planning, from my point of view, for an, our word is more on the people resources, like the team that would be on this, managing this product and planning would be like, okay.

How many people do we want? What’s the structure? When are we going to onboard them? When are we going to offboard them? How are we going to find them? So planning our resources, you know, from all aspects. 

Orion Matthews: So let’s dive into the resource plan. And I guess this is an interesting point with, without the right people, your project fails.

You could have the best plan all the right permits, everything’s sort of in place, but if you don’t get the right people on board, it sort of all falls apart. And so it’s this critical piece. And you’re saying resource plan is where you start. How would you build a resource plan for a large, you know, multi-billion dollar project?

Where do you start with that? 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yes. And, and as you know, you know, the market is moving fast, projects are bigger. Talent pool is really [00:08:00] tight, right? Uh, there’s a lot of challenges. But before diving into these challenges, let me just maybe walk you a step by step how I think about building, you know, a resource plan for a project and how we work it out with the clients, right?

Uh, and, and there’s no one way to do it. But there are steps that we should follow to d determine, you know, for each project or each program, what’s the route we wanna take. And, and this would be like, okay, are we going to, from a client perspective for sure, are we going to do it internally?

Are we going to outsource, you know, a team of experts to do it? Are we going to go for professional services or managed services? What’s the best route for it? And it’ll vary based on, the project complexity, the, the type of industry, the internal culture of the client. So there are many things, you know, uh, that, could make you make different decisions, uh, based on the factors or based on the givens you have.

So as a step by step, the first step I would start with is [00:09:00] just identify the project size and complexity, right? So what’s the type of project? What’s the co the overall budget for this project? How complex is this project? And then we start building the same structure accordingly. So lay out the roles and responsibilities, uh, the scope of work, you know, that needs to be taken care of.

Uh, we uh, start creating Gracie Charts. Who’s responsible for what, right? And then when do we need the people? So based on this organizational structure. From a client perspective, you would just be looking at it and saying, okay, we have this talent, we have the skillset, but we’re missing this. So are we going to hire, you know, a team member going to internally transfer from other projects, or we’re going to go and outsource it?

And if we’re going to outsource it, are we going just to outsource the talents and we manage it as a client or we outsource [00:10:00] the entire scope of work? Like for example, oh, the cost management, do we have a good cost lead internally that would manage some cost, like cost resources that we are going to hire or no, we’ll just, you know, give the cost management scope to uh, I would say one of the expert companies in it and, and just give them the scope for a fee, right?

So all of these things, you know, should be discussed at the beginning of the project, during the planning phase and whenever. A route is decided then steps should be taken after that. So, so that, that’s, I would say the first steps before diving into, okay, how are we going to start the, the resource, you know, resourcing for the project.

So let me know if you have any question at this stage. 

Orion Matthews: I do have a question. Okay. So what I heard is it’s like you set the strategy first with the organization, and that could be for a variety of reasons. Insource, outsource, M-S-A-E-P-C, different [00:11:00] approaches. Essentially sort of calibrating the risk and the appetite and the model that you’re going after.

And then once you have that, then it’s time to set up roles and responsibilities plan your manpower, set up your timeframe for hiring and things like that. So if I could zoom all the way back to the first one, the strategy quite, I have one question for you on this. You 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: should. 

Orion Matthews: Okay. In Amazon, they have this topic, they call it one-way door, two-way door.

So they make two-way doors, means you can do something and then you can back out of it fairly easily. So they encourage people, they’re like, if it’s a two-way door, just make the decision and then we’ll just pull back one-way. Doors are things where it’s like you go through that door and coming back out that door is actually really tough.

So the Strat, going back to your question of like insource versus outsource, let’s say, is that a one-way door for projects? Because I have seen situations where it’s like, Hey, we’re gonna outsource this, and it’s like, ah, this contractor’s not working. Uh, let’s build an internal team and [00:12:00] sort this out. Is that sort of like trying to go back through a one-way door?

Like talk, talk a little bit about how flexible it is to change that strategy. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yes. So, so it’s always flexible at the beginning and it gets harder, you know, as we dive more into the project. And that’s why I always advise the clients we need to, you know, just give it a thought, work on it, do our due diligence during the planning phase and before even going to pre-construction phase I would say there are several factors here, right?

So the first thing would be as a client, I would ask myself, do I have the talents like to do this job, correctly. Because sometimes we go, okay, you know what, we will just hire, it is cheaper to do it this way. Just instead of paying, you know a company to, because the company will pay the employee, you know, the same salary I would give them and then they would pay for the risk and for managing them and their profit and overhead and everything.

Yeah. So is it cheaper to do it internally? I would say maybe, yes. But is it the best way to do it? Most [00:13:00] probably it, it really depends, right? It could be, yes. Could be no. I would say the first thing is do we have the talent to do it? Because some companies, they are not truly, I wouldn’t say they, they are not into the construction world.

They are building labs. They are building, like their main business is life science. Their main business is data centers. They, their main business is not real estate. So definitely their, I would say their internal talents are coming from a different scope of, you know, scope, different area of expertise and not to manage the construction products.

So this is where we want to go to the experts and hire them to do, you know, to do the job. Uh, then the other thing would be, okay, let’s say we are a life science company. We think we can hire the entire team and run the project. So ask yourself a question, what would happen after this project? Like, you hire a team of like 20 to 30 resources for two or three years.[00:14:00] 

Do you have jobs for them after this project is completed? Will they, you know, be transferred to another project in the same location? Will you relocate them? Will you fire them? Right? Because that would be the first question. And we will, we will DD uh, dive we will dive deeply into the, into the challenges while resourcing.

But one of the first questions would be, okay, what’s my career plan after this project? If I accepted an offer with your company? Do you have something for me after the job? 

So for these companies that are just building one project or two project and their main business is not construction.

They would have to deal with the, all the hr, you know, things of hiring and firing and severance, you know, and relocating and all these things. Do you wanna focus on this or focus on building your project and just hire an expert to do it for you. And they have all the opportunities that they can just move their resources and employees between project within the same location, you know, in [00:15:00] different industries.

So that would be one of the things that would make, okay, now we go and hire an expert the MPC company, and then when the contract is done, then we don’t have to worry about anything. We just go and use our buildings. Right. Uh, if that answers your question. 

Orion Matthews: Yeah, that’s a great point. And particularly you mentioned the career path, but it’s also sort of critical for the project because if you know your company’s gonna lay you off and you’re in execute.

You’re, they’re, you’re highly likely to probably take the next opportunity that’s available to you. So there’s probably attrition that happens for companies that pick that path, that really don’t have a place for someone to go. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yes. And actually it happens a lot, during the last phase of the project, which is the most important phase, to turn over the building and close it out.

People start feeling, you know, worried about their job insecurity and try looking for jobs because they know they don’t know what’s coming and when they get the, the best opportunity they leave and then no one to close out the project and turn the building over.

Orion Matthews: [00:16:00] Yeah. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: So I would be worried if the client doesn’t have enough portfolio for the team to, you know, move between different projects, then definitely they should hire, you know a specialized company to do the work for them.

And, and, and the typical way to do it is really like have some internal high level director employee. That are responsible for managing the entire portfolio, but then hire the expert team, you know, or outsource the expert team to be reporting to this director that’s managing the portfolio. 

Orion Matthews: That makes a lot of sense.

Well, okay, so one more question or more questions on resource planning real quick. Sure. Okay. I’m building a, a, I’m building a giant bridge. We’ve been talking about resource planning and it’s been a little bias towards like maybe the owner’s team. But let’s say we’re gonna have 500 people on site, we gotta plan out there, accommodations, all this stuff.

How much of resource planning. There’s sort of, is there like two worlds? You have sort of the job site execute [00:17:00] re is that included in resource planning and that goes in your manpower? So, or do you leave that to the contractors? 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: So yes and no. Like it’s included, but it’s not the responsibility of the owner.

I would say resource planning or manpower planning of the site would be the responsibility of the gc, the general contractor, right? Because you have a resource plan for your team. The general contractor would have a resource plan for their team and their subcontractors on site. Uh, so there’s a lot of logistics planning behind it.

A lot of, you know, resources there’s always a product execution plan that needs to be reviewed on the owner’s side before going into construction. It’ll definitely include the manpower planning, the logistics planning, the safety planning for everyone on site during the project cycle 

Orion Matthews: now. So it’s hard to find talent these days.

Like how much do owners need to care about. The resource plan of their contract. So it’s one thing to say, okay, you guys got it. Go find 4,000 people for this job. But like, is the resource planning group, [00:18:00] like looking over their shoulder, helping them kind of cross checking their resource plan? Like how much does that scope, how do you manage them?

How you manage someone’s resource plan? 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Exactly. And, and that’s the challenge, right? Like, that’s why I’m telling you this is one of the hottest topics. Go to any project management, project controls company and tell them what’s your number one challenge. They will tell you finding resources, finding the right talent.

So just ask this question like, can I find the people who have done similar project before? Because if I’m building a data center, if I’m building, you know, uh, labs and offices, like I want someone with an experience who has built it before, right? 

Orion Matthews: Yeah. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: So the first question would be, do I have someone who have done similar projects before or.

Then, okay, if I do, could the client afford them? Because okay, I have them, but they’re very expensive because it’s a niche market. Do I have, would the client pay for their rate sometimes? Oh, no, no. That’s very expensive. Okay, let’s [00:19:00] find another option. Yeah, but the other option doesn’t have the same experience, so they would need training.

It’s a risk to the project. So sometime the client, you know, how they look into their resources makes all the difference to the project. I worked with clients that was, okay, if I find the best resource and this is their salary, I am paying for it. That’s an investment in the project to make sure, you know, I’m avoiding risk, I’m mitigating the risks.

I’m finishing on time within the budget. So we are investing in the resources if this is their cost, other clients think, no, that’s expensive. Just find me someone who can do the job, and we accept the risk. Which is, I, I don’t totally agree with this approach. I’m more of, if you find the right resource, if this is their compensation, go for it.

You will definitely save money. You’ll definitely save time. And you know, it, it is the best approach to do it. So that, that would be the first thing. And then that, [00:20:00] okay, if I find the best, the, the, the best talent, you know, for this job has similar experience, the client is willing to, to, to pay for them.

The other question, are they located in the same project location? Are they local? Oh, yeah. Okay. Now they are in Texas and we’re doing a project in California. Are they willing to relocate? Okay. If, if not, is the client willing to you know, accept remote work or they want someone on site? And here where it comes tricky because for me it really depends on what are you doing.

If you’re a construction manager, you shouldn’t be doing it remotely, right? Like you’re on site day to day. 

Orion Matthews: Yeah. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: But if you are doing cost management, scheduling, you can manage it remotely, you know, going, we, we learned a lot during the COVID time, right? We, we were able to do a lot of jobs remotely using, you know, teams and, and Zoom and, you know, just going, uh, through online calls and, and managing, and then you can travel to the, to the site every now and then just to meet with the team [00:21:00] and, and do workshops and stuff, stuff like that.

So it, it would really depend on the client culture and their flexibility on that. And I, I’m a fan of, you know, if the person can do the job regardless where they are doing it, just. I would evaluate them by deliverables. I, I wouldn’t just dictate my terms, how to do the job, and then if they fail, you know, I just go and add, oh, how, why did you fail?

Although I’m the one dictating the terms, right? So my role is to make sure I set clear expectation. We have deliverables. If you can do it from anywhere, then good. If you can, then there’s a problem. Right? 

Orion Matthews: So that makes a lot of sense. I mean, what I, what I’m hearing is you look for people that have been, that, that know the scope that have done it before.

Then you work out affordability, uh, then you work out location and relo slash onsite. Offsite needs. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yeah. 

Orion Matthews: [00:22:00] And then set expectations. Yeah. And, 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: and, and, and, you know, before all of this, you know, just, I don’t wanna forget the number one challenge now in the US maybe because I worked in international market, so it’s not the same, uh, in another places, but I would say like, do you have a Visa authorization to work in the us?

Right? Right. So front end of that, so now it’s really challenging because all the new policies for the H one visa, uh, H one B, visa, you know, all the the, the fee that was added because, okay, if I’m going to, hire this person, if I, if the company is willing to pay the new application fee that’s around, I think 100 k now.

How long would it take even to process it, right? If I, if I want someone immediately, will I be able to hire them? The answer is definitely no. The process takes months, right? Yeah. So, so having someone that checks all the boxes, you know has visa authorization already [00:23:00] local in the location or waiting to relocate, have similar experience.

Then the, the, the last thing, okay, if someone checks all the boxes, then we need to pay for this salary, right? So, so that’s why the market is very challenging in this, uh, you know, in this part. And then the competition is really high. You can go through all of this. So send the offer, the client is okay, and then last minute you get a call from the candidate and tell you, oh, I got a better offer and I’m going for it, 

Orion Matthews: yeah. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Getting, getting just back to one important thing, you know, which is AI and how AI is doing in, in our current world and the future of it.

Right. So AI is already here, as you know, right? It’s being used for reporting and analysis and communication. It’s already being used. Like there’s a lot of companies that are. Using AI tools to I would say analyze their dashboards and reports and come with a summary and recommendation, right? It’s used [00:24:00] in communication.

I would say when you are developing some email communication proposals, you can use co-pilot chat, pt, Google Gemini, you know, so in different, I’m mainly interested in our construction real estate word, but I would say in other, areas, they are using the same tools and other tools, you know, that develop pictures and proposals and, analysis and so it’s currently used this way.

I would say, it’s not really, like the AI tool is not really a replacement, uh, for judgment. You should always make sense of what you’re seeing. You shouldn’t rely on it a hundred percent. It’s still being matured, right? So there’s still, I would say there’s still a lot of room of growth within our area.

Like there should be AI estimating tools. So if I wanna estimate a project, estimate the cost of a project for a data center, I would go to an AI tool, tell them that this is the way I [00:25:00] want it structure, and I get, I rely on the estimate. It’s not there yet, but it’s coming. Definitely same for baseline schedules, right?

So in our controls word and project management word, I believe there is the AI is, is developing and growing so fast. Uh, but it’s not a replacement for the resources. We should more use it a as a tool. To help us, you know manage more projects, uh, with, you know, the resources challenge that we have today.

Orion Matthews: Yeah, I think that’s really good advice. It’s, uh, so many people look at AI as a headcount replacement tool, but I really think it’s probably just a massive productivity tool, which is why I’ve always been confused about layoffs related to ai. It’s like, if all your employees are 500% more productive because of ai, why would you fire them?

That’s like the worst time you just, 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: yeah, and, and actually, like, it’s it doesn’t happen with everyone, [00:26:00] right? It happens with specific companies. That, and okay, that would be my advice, right? Because you should always learn and be on the latest tools and methodologies. So if you are an expert in a specific software that is now outdated.

Then yes, you’re going to get replaced, right? 

Orion Matthews: Right. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: But if you are learning the latest technology and moving forward with what’s currently there, then you know, you’ll be actually, you know, you’ll be hot on the market and everyone will be looking for you. So that’s why I always keep learning, stay on the current tools and methods.

AI is, you know, the future. So definitely learn AI tools, keep using them, and then you don’t have to worry about anything. Right? 

Orion Matthews: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think WW why would you imagine if we, we run the clock for it a little bit with ai, is it you know, just these conversations you can have so quickly where you could be like.

Hey, [00:27:00] I’m I think the cranes are gonna be late by two weeks. How does this affect critical path? And it’s just like, here you go. But did you think about the fact that your contractor can’t get the, you know, need, there’s this other person needs a crane or something’s, you know, the site’s gonna be different now you can’t.

Just all of that stuff. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yeah. And, and that, and that’s why I’m saying there is always a human factor, right? Especially in our management world. You get information. Number one is I need to validate this information, whether it’s coming from a person or from ai. I need to validate the information. Right. I don’t rely on one source to get my information.

Yeah. So you get the information, you make sense of it, validated. Then you discuss it with other parties, so I would be, okay, AI will come to me and say, oh, I discussed with the project manager. That was the response, that was the cost manager response. Okay, that’s good. You know, they’re helping me.

But you would definitely need to discuss it, have it at a team meeting, and then come with a conclusion that someone would need to [00:28:00] execute.

Orion Matthews: Yeah. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Which AI can document it for me, but someone would need to exclude it. 

Orion Matthews: What’s the most impressive thing you’ve seen with AI applied to project controls so far, if anything?

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Not yet. I would say, yeah. Uh, yeah, for, for me, Chad GPT is definitely a, a game changer, right? 

Orion Matthews: Mm-hmm. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: It’s not a hundred percent reliable, but it does what I, you know, what I need. So for now, 

Orion Matthews: yeah, we haven’t seen the killer app yet. I think it’s coming. There’s a lot of people working on it. 

Well, so what are your, you know, the market is brutal right now. What are your sort of tricks or tips that you would have that you’re employing or you would give people for sourcing candidates? For all this specialized work. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Okay. So myself, I’m very well connected, I would say, in the networking platform, whether online or even offline.

Going to conferences. I keep a tight network, you know, with all the talents in my industry, [00:29:00] I keep even if I don’t, don’t have a current role, I try to interview people like two, three in candidates a day, right? Because when the opportunity comes, I have my list that I would be reaching out to and tell them, oh, I think this opportunity fits, your qualification.

Go apply for it, and then we can take it from there. So I go, you know, to a lot of people and ask them, okay, what are you interested in? What’s your experience? What’s your salary range? What’s your current preference with location? So I have my own database, you know, that okay, I need someone in Boston, I need someone in at Maryland.

I need someone in California, uh, with this qualification. So I have, you know in my back pocket. I would say, 

Orion Matthews: yeah, 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: some resources that I would reach out to. So definitely I, I’m not saying everyone should be doing this, but hr, and, and talent acquisition team definitely should always be doing this.

Orion Matthews: Well, so it sounds [00:30:00] like you’re pretty familiar with doing interviews. Let’s talk about like what red flags do you look for in interviews? Like what separates someone who can talk the, talk from someone who can actually run controls on say, a billion dollar project? 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yeah, and there are really like two parts of it.

So the good thing, like what I like to do is, first speaking about the HR perspective, which I get it, if, if they all, if they fit. You know, the project or not, right? Do they have the, uh, the qualification? Do they have the, is their salary range within our budget? You know, are they local? So I ask first all the HR questions.

Sometimes I even, you know, deep dive into some personal questions. Like, okay, if you’re going to relocate, what would be your family response? Because sometimes, oh, I’m wanting to relocate. And then the family, oh no, we don’t wanna relocate. Right? Yeah. So I do this part of, you know, the HR and the personal part as well at first, and then we move to the technical part.[00:31:00] 

So from a technical part, it, it, it really depends on the role. If it’s within my expertise, I would say special. Like if it’s cost or scheduling, or PMOI start, you know, by deep diving into. Technical questions. Okay. Tell me how would you do it? Uh, if you have the size of project, how would you start?

You know, the same questions you’re asking me. Right. But because I’ve done it, because I’ve, I I, I’ve been, like let’s say for the PMO team that I was leading, I wasn’t, you know, just the lead for the team. I was deep diving in every function and building with the resource, the templates, you know, the process, uh, the reports, working with the project management team on it.

So I know the challenges. And then start asking the questions and see what would be the answer if you come up with similar challenges or not. So you can easily if you worked on it, you can easily identify if this person has done it before or just, you know, have general knowledge about the topic. And then [00:32:00] like typically, you know, we would have a, another technical interview.

So, uh, you wouldn’t only have one interview, typically, you would have, you know, just go through a multiple interview stages, uh, before moving forward. 

Orion Matthews: Okay. And let me ask you, because that, that makes a lot of sense on how to get the hard skills and then you and sort of kind of get down to brass tacks.

I have one question about personality for you. Something I’ve noticed over this podcast, it’s been kind of interesting. I was thinking about commonalities among all of the people. And one of them that I’ve noticed is that project controls professionals aren’t complainers. Like I was thinking about all my episodes, I’ve never had anyone complain to me about problems.

And I started to think I’m interviewing all these leaders. Maybe complaining is sort of a really deadly thing when you’re working in the project control space. I know, it’s kind of, for me, it’s like if you start complaining, it’s really [00:33:00] problematic. It kind of means you’ve lost the plot. And so I’m wondering are there like soft skills that you look for kind of like that maybe, or others that, that you flag or that are green flags?

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yeah. And, and, and yeah. And definitely let, let’s, let’s be transparent here. You can’t identify all of these things during just 30 minutes interview, right. You try as best as you can. Yeah. But things will come up, you know, whenever, uh, you start. But I would say this would be more on the leadership level because it’s how you set up your team.

Like I always try to set up the positive culture. So are we going to be working together on that or. Uh, it just, everyone is trying to point fingers, oh, who’s responsible for doing this? So it really depends on the leader of the team. You know, you wanna set a positive culture, we’re all here to help each other and identify, oh, if there’s a problem, yeah, let’s, let’s red flag it, let’s work on it and see what’s the best way to, you know, to approach it.

But if you’re just [00:34:00] complaining because someone is doing something, but you, you don’t come up with an, you know, with a solution, then that’s a, I would say that’s a red flag that we need to, you know, highlight that this is not a positive approach, uh, not a past a positive characteristic and start working on it.

Orion Matthews: Got it. Okay. Can I dive into one more thing? It’s sort of like tossing up. Do we talk about manpower plan? Do we talk about rasi? Let’s do rasi. So, RACI, responsibilities responsible, accountable, consulted, informed. If I’m not correct, uh, maybe yes. You can talk about your process for setting up that chart.

Or 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yeah, definitely. And, and, and actually I believe like our next topic was going to be PMO, which this is a big part of it. So do you wanna go to the PMO topic and, and, you know, 

Orion Matthews: yeah, let’s, let’s do that and maybe just kick it off with a little rassy guide. Yeah. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Okay. Okay. So PMO actually is another challenging topic, right?

So, and I like working [00:35:00] in, in, in the world of challenges, so don’t get me wrong. So, so, PMO previously, actually, it was known as an advisory role, right? So just, you know, there’s a PMO team that’s responsible for reporting and creating templates. Uh, and usually like sometime, like no one is using even this templates or these reports or it’s outdated or stuff like that.

So I’m not a big fan of this type of PMO structure, which is the advisory one that’s not involved in the program or the project. But nowadays, you know, the modern PMO, I would say there are three different types. The first one was the advisory second, it’s a supporting structure. Third is the controlling structure.

So the supporting structure, you get more involvement within the project and the program. So you have a project management delivery team, and you have a supporting function, which is the PMO that supports the project delivery team. So you have a cost [00:36:00] manager, you have a scheduler, you have procurement. All of them are supporting working hand in hand with the product management team on the project.

So just an example. Okay. So what would be the, I would say what? What would be the difference in roles and responsibilities between a project manager? And the supporting PMO function, right? So if it’s a small project, you don’t really need a supporting PMO. So, PMO is usually developed when you have a large program, a complex program.

But when it’s small program or small project, the project manager is responsible for everything The project manager does the cost management, he reviews invoices, he created cash flow. Uh, he work on the schedule, and review change orders and manage subcontractors and daily activities because it’s a small project when the project cope and complexity and, and budget, you know, increase there that we, you need support.

So you start bringing expert in every [00:37:00] area. So I would say the cost manager will be reviewing all invoices, all change order, cashflow, uh, maintaining the budget. At the same time, the project manager is still liable for this budget. So it’s, you can’t work in two different silos. So the project management or the delivery team, main responsibility is to manage the project.

It’s to manage the contractor, manage the subcontractor, daily activities, but at the same time getting help from the cost manager on the PMO team. So this is the supporting function. And here where it comes to RACI charts, right? Because you would wanna draw the line between different responsibilities.

Who is responsible, which in this case would be the supporting function. The cost manager who’s accountable, which would be the project manager who’s consulted, which could be the client, could be the, I would say the PMO director and who’s informed, [00:38:00] right? So that’s the RACI chart. And then you go through all the scope and start.

Putting all your, you know, scope team members and identify who’s responsible, who’s accountable, who’s consultant, and who’s informed for everything. This way you lay down the, the, the roles and responsibilities for everyone. Everyone understand the role, the liabilities, their accountability, the reporting structure.

So there is no confusion in it that this, this answer your question. 

Orion Matthews: It does. Thank you. And, and what I heard is there’s kind of three different ways to set up A PMO. You can set it up as an advisory function, which might be a little dated or maybe that’s the wrong word. There’s an advisory function. Uh, 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: yeah.

It, it’s typically like if you are not surely involved, because I, I will tell you here, what’s the problem if I’m a product manager, I’m doing the job and someone that’s not involved, doesn’t know my challenges, my risks come and tell me this is the way you should be, you know, reporting and doing it, and they are not involved.

Most probably it’ll fail, right? Because they don’t know [00:39:00] what I’m doing. They’re just think that it’s a one way that could be, you know, uh, done across all the projects. So I’m with the supporting function because you are involved, you are helping, you are supporting, you’re working together. And you have more, I would say more technical knowledge in your area of expertise.

This is how I would think of it. The controlling, which is the third one. It really needs a very experienced team to be doing the, because controlling means the project management team is reporting to the PMO team. The PMO is the one responsible for the entire program, right? So, so the client hired a program management team, tells them I wanna build this portfolio.

We will have several project management team, but at the end, the PMO is responsible for delivery. Budget, schedule, risk design, everything. So the leaders of this team should be more experienced, I would [00:40:00] say, or have the same experience of the project delivery team so they can lead them and manage them to, you know, to achieve the goal of the customer.

Orion Matthews: Now, I would say most of the time I’ve seen things in the support model. Yes. This control model is interesting though. I mean, what benefits are there for rolling up everything under A PMO? Is that has there been some successes there? Do organizations like it?

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yes. Yes. It, I, I, I’ve been, you know, in one of these structure where.

There was like, without specifying specific project, just for confidentiality reason. But I, I would say that the case, so there was eight project management team, the team that had, like, I would say the director that was leading the, the largest and the most complex project was the project control was promoted to be the project controls director.

The project delivery lead was responsible for the, A teams was the PMO director, [00:41:00] you know, and then they started laying down the, I would say not only the structure and the responsibilities, but more of the framework of how they want this program built. The advantage for that for the client is they have.

Single point of contact, single person, responsible, I would say single team responsible for the success of this project. They don’t deal with eight different project management team, eight different contractors. No. It’s the responsibility of the PMO team. 

Orion Matthews: Yeah. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: To work it out. So no, definitely if this individual has the experience, worked on the project delivery side, worked on the project control side, worked on the PMO side, and is able to set the framework and drive it, then it’s set up for success.

Orion Matthews: So what I’m hearing is that in, in roles like that, it’s really sort of advise, support, control is almost, advise is like reporting. It’s the town scribe, that’s good. It’s helpful. And then support is more of a managed [00:42:00] service integrated model where you’re, actively consulting and working hand in hand.

And then control is where you actually create that accountability structure. And that can be really helpful for management ’cause you have one one org that you can go to to really ask for accountability on performance Yes. And status. Yeah. So 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: I would say the hard, the hardest part here, I would say, because for everyone there is the challenges, right?

But I would say the top challenge for having a PMO in place is getting everyone’s buy-in. There, there are two, I would say two parts or two, uh, buy-ins that you need to get. Like the first buy-in would be the team you’re working with, right? The buy-in of the project delivery team. 

Orion Matthews: Mm-hmm. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: I walked at some point, I walked into a team, you know, as a PMO lead that the delivery team didn’t even know that there was going to be a PMO team, right?

And then I say, okay, so what are we doing? What would be the PMO team doing? Uh, we thought that we are [00:43:00] responsible for the entire project. If now we have a PMO team, what would they be doing? So you’ll be facing a lot of resistance, right? So I started by explaining our role, uh, explaining that the PMO is here to support like it’s not the police of the product, right?

So, so I would say that the PMO is a supporting function. We’re here to support you, we’re here to work with you to streamline the process for you and not surely to take over. So getting the buy-in of the team and explaining to them their roles and responsibilities and making sure everyone understands their role and, you know, the collaborative environment is really important.

So that, that would be the first thing, actually, not the first thing, because the other buy-in, if you don’t have it, then don’t even try. Which is the client buy-in. 

Orion Matthews: Yeah. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: But some projects, if the client is not even convinced of having project controls. Function or a PMO function, then what are you trying to do?

Right? So because you are getting resistance from the [00:44:00] team and the client is not backing you up, so no one is listening to what you’re trying to do, so you’re set up for failure. So, so, but getting buy-in of the team and everyone understands what you’re trying to do is the, the real challenge for PMO.

Orion Matthews: So you’ve set up PMOs before, like maybe you can walk me through like your first 90 day plan. What you know, what, what what do you do? When you first get the job to set up a team. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Okay. Yes. So it typically takes from six months to a year to mature your PMO strategy. I would say the first 90 days I will start focusing on understanding the client culture, right?

The client culture, client structure, uh, authority matrix, the project processes in place, uh, the, the current stages of the project, reviewing the budget, reviewing the schedule. So I pen, I, I spend the first few weeks learning about the project and the client and the team. And then within this period, I [00:45:00] start identifying the gaps.

Okay, what gaps do I see based on my experience? Where would we need to, you know improve, uh, some of the areas, you know to make it better. Uh, so when we identify the gaps, we start defining the rules, streamlining the processes, and then training the teams to do it. So I would say that that would be the first 90 day just learning, identifying gaps, streamlining the processes, and training the team to do it.

And then it’ll just be, you know, trial and error for some of the things until from six months to a year you have, uh, I would say a well established PMO structure. 

Orion Matthews: And what functions would you typically have under that PMO reporting to you? Like risk is sometimes in, sometimes out, like what are the, what are the 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: cost 

Orion Matthews: reporting?

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yes. Good point. 

Orion Matthews: Yeah. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yeah. So, so my favorite, I would say project controls with all its, you know its function like [00:46:00] cost, schedule, risk, procurement. As we mentioned, we have the project control theme and then procurement. So sometimes the clients would say procurement. Finance, these are our internal functions. We’re not giving this to the PMO, right? 

Orion Matthews: Mm-hmm. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: And then I always recommend that yes, there should be a client, internal finance and procurement team, but for this project, the procurement and finance PMO function are supporting the internal client teams.

So for example, there is a procurement process in place for the client for approvals on certain thresholds, on certain software they’re using. The PM also still should still be using it. But who develops the project procurement strategy? Mm-hmm. Who, uh, developed the RFPs for the consultant and the GCs who reviews and, uh, I would say start analyzing and comparing [00:47:00] the bids, right?

So the procurement team for the, within the PMO function should be dedicated to this project. And then when they. Develop the project procurement strategy, uh, issue the RFP and get approval from the, you know, the client side, compare the bids, they should go and put it, go within the framework of the client, submit according to the process and get all the approvals that’s needed.

But still, the procurement function within this project is really important. Uh, that, that’s, you know, how I see it, it was very efficient. It saved millions of dollars in some of the projects, uh, due to some, you know, cost savings and negotiation and, and getting everyone on board on time. So it’s really efficient to have a procurement resource within your PMO structure.

Then I would go to finance, right? And again, finance is typical an internal client thing, but finance for this [00:48:00] project specifically or this program. So reviewing the invoices, mm-hmm. Just doing all the checks and balances, uh, doing the cash flows for the project, working with the different, with different teams, whether the project managers, whether the contractors on submitting their cash flows.

So all of the checks and balances and the finances within the project. And the reporting comes from the PMO function, and then they report to the finance side of the client. Uh, 

Orion Matthews: so how do you the finance, that’s interesting. So how do you achieve that? Do you like suc someone to the finance team that’s part of like how do you actually structurally set up that finance integration?

Ahmed AbdelSalam: So I typically have a finance lead on, on the project, on the PMO team, right? And then they are in charge of reviewing all the invoices before getting them into the system for the final client approval. So they do their checklist. I have a checklist. For all the financial reviews, right? So you go [00:49:00] and check the first, you have to check the contract, you have to check the, what we agreed on, the GCs and the grs, the, the rates, the billing rates, the equipment rates, and then make sure that everything is in place the way we set it up.

And when, when everything is in place, you go and put it in the system and then, you know, just let the client finance team know it’s in the system. It’s approved by the pm by the cost manager. We did our checks and balances, take a final review, approve it in your system. And then same for the cash flow.

They pull all the cash flows from all the teams, put it in one, you know, consolidated project cash, program cash flow, and go discuss it with the client on monthly or quarterly basis. 

Orion Matthews: Okay. And did I interrupt you or was that the last. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: No, it’s not the last. 

Orion Matthews: Okay, keep going. Yeah, 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: So you have the product controls procurement finance, [00:50:00] for me, most important data and analytics, I always recommend having at least one person of data and analytics team member on the team for reporting and P-M-P-M-I-S systems, right?

Like within our world, we use either Procore Project Insight, tango Kahua, you know, you can name how many, you know tools we have in the PMIS and the cost management side. So you need to have a data analytical person that configurate all this, set the permissions, pull the information, create the dashboards and the reports for the client, and make sure everything is working correctly.

So for me, that’s, you know, my key person on the PMO who makes sure. All the information is accurate. Pull the and on time, working on reports with all the different teams and functions. So that’s an important individual on the team. Key person. There is some time, the design lead. So [00:51:00] from a cost and scheduling and risk and procurement perspective, that’s the controlled part.

But there’s also the design management part where you have a design lead who’s making sure that all the design that’s submitted by the consultant follows the, I would say the design guidelines of the client from a design perspective. Make sure we get all the sign off from the client, you know, just, we have, or we create gateways.

So you go and, and just get the buy off of the client and the design that’s submitted by the consultants after everyone review them. Right. So sometime you have a design lead. What else? Sometime you have, you could have a communication person who’s responsible for all the project communication, the templates, you know, the events, the meeting coordinations.

Sometimes it’s just you, you have project coordinator on the project team. Sometimes you just have a communication manager responsible for all the program, you [00:52:00] know, communications. 

That’s what I can 

Orion Matthews: doc control and doc control. Does that sit within the PMO as well? 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yes. Yes. Doc control as well?

Yes. 

Orion Matthews: I think we covered it. That was a lot. What I heard was, uh, let’s see, procurement, cost, schedule, risk. A finance lead that interfaces with finance gets your actuals. And then doc control, a data person that brings it all together and a communications person who also helps with like reporting and coordination and all sorts of other things.

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yeah. And, and you can look at, at it in different ways. Like sometimes you can combine like what the finance person is doing. Sometimes the cost manager is doing both like finance and cost, right. From a PMO perspective. 

Orion Matthews: Yeah. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: And sometimes you get the doc control. It’s the same person who’s doing the data analytics because it’s part of their role is to make sure the documents and the SharePoint or the [00:53:00] tools are, you know, being managed the same way.

So you can split or combine, you know, the way in different ways. It always require, you know, alignment with your customer and how you wanna do things. 

Orion Matthews: Okay. So that’s a great overview and now I’ll ask you a hard question. For you, but don’t name names, which is like, what is one of the biggest lessons you’ve learned from a project that went sideways, 

Without incriminating anyone?

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yes. 

Orion Matthews: What’s something that you can share with us? A lesson learned. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Okay. Okay. Honestly, it would be like if you’re dealing with someone in charge who doesn’t understand the importance of what we’re doing, right? 

Orion Matthews: Yeah. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: That that’s typical. It happens, you know, uh, just yes. Like, why do even need a cost manager what they’re doing?

And then I, okay. That’s, [00:54:00] let’s say the basics for, controlling a project. Yes, the project manager is liable, but let’s look into the workload. Let’s look into their scope of work. Can they do it for a multi-billion dollar project on their own? Probably not. When it comes to a big portfolio, you need to standardize your process.

Like one point I I, I, I just stepped into a project. It was six different, a program. I would say it was six different project or maybe more. Right. And then I was, each project manager was doing their own thing, their own templates, then own way of reporting. And I was like, okay, from a portfolio manager perspective.

How would I just see the entire program budget, the entire contingency? How would I manage it? Yeah. Then like, we need a standardized process. We need a standardized work breakdown structure. Cause break, you don’t have, not, not everyone has to be using all the work breakdown structure, but we need to have a general one that everyone is using.

So [00:55:00] part of the PMO, uh, responsibility or one of the main responsibilities is to build the structure and of standardization across your portfolio to have one reporting way, one way of identifying the gaps, uh, driving the cost, the schedule of the entire program, especially if they are interrelated products.

Orion Matthews: And so is it when you meet that resistance at the executive level, which I think happens a lot, I would bet it’s over 40% because PMOs are not known. Like people know what A CFO is. People don’t know what A PMO is. I think they will. I think it’s growing. But I think you 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: still, it’s, it’s, and, and actually if you go now to the top clients or top companies in each industry, they now have a PMO structure.

Others are starting to follow. Right? And it’s really, it, it should be, you know, an easy pitch. Because when I step into a new customer, tell ’em, okay, this is [00:56:00] how the project was before having a PMO. This is what the project will look like after having a PMO from a structured perspective, from a controlling perspective, for me, even like when I go to a client, we’re really here to help the client, right?

We are here, we’re, we are here to give them visibility on reporting, visibility on how the product is going. But sometimes and that, that’s my, I would say my school of doing things is we have to always be transparent with the client, even if it’s. A risk that will get the product sideways. Let them know about it.

Let them know that we are working to solve it. But you know, just don’t hide it under the rugs until you try to find a solution. Maybe you find, maybe not. So it’s so like our role is to always keep the client informed and informed of the problem and informed of the efforts being done to resolve the problem.

This is how I would look at it. 

Orion Matthews: That’s an amazing point, which I think is, is it’s so fundamental that you are the [00:57:00] speed of transparency and disclosure. Like if you have a PMO that’s really doing well for you, I think one of the big differences is that they will bring you news that you didn’t wanna hear, and it’s very hard to hear.

And maybe there’s some tricks you could share about how to share that news because like that is one of the core functions of the PMO. But it’s also one of the most dangerous, and there’s a reason people try and sweep things under the rug. Like how do you advise your teams to create that open? 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Okay.

Again, I I, I, I, I wouldn’t say I’m the best one to do it because I’m always the person who, you know, I, I like to have everything, you know, transparent. So there’s some clients I work with, they truly appreciate it. They truly appreciate what I’m doing. Oh, thank you for letting us know. Now we understand.

Now we wanna solve it. Right. Some clients without naming names, right. They were just, why are you telling me this? We will know later in six months, and then we can take care of it. [00:58:00] And then, okay. I’m, I’m telling you, because you are the one liable for the entire, I’d say entire program or project or whatever.

So you should know, even if you don’t wanna. To make a decision now, you should just, you know, be aware of the, of the thing. And some of them, you know, they don’t wanna know because they would have to report it higher and they don’t wanna communicate this message to the leadership, you know? Right. But from my point of view, I do communicate it because I don’t see a problem out of transparency.

It is what, like, I always tell them, it is what it is. Right. It happened. We need to figure it out. So just, I’m not a complainer, as you said. I, I’m a person who try, I’m, uh, I’m results driven and I try to find a solution for things. So, yeah, 

Orion Matthews: no, 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: you know, it happens, but, uh, it depends on the, on the character and the, and the culture of the client you’re dealing with.

So I, I was lucky to deal with a lot of, you know, I would say understanding and, and good clients that, uh, [00:59:00] we’re still friends. Even after I left my previous companies we’re still, you know, working and discussing things because, you know, we, we were aligned a lot of things and our way of doing things was almost the same, right?

Orion Matthews: So this is that transparency issue, right? It goes all the way down to the site level, the individual person that doesn’t tell us, you know, the foreman that he forgot to bring his tools all the way up, right? So how do you, how do you break through to get, ’cause really what you’re saying is I’m communicating reality to my superiors.

But then you have, if you look down into reality from where you’re sitting, you have all these barriers of getting to the reality of like, there, there’s all sorts of incentives for folks to cover up what’s really happening. It cover ups the wrong word, but like, delay disclosure, I guess, would be a way to put it, but 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: yes.

And, and how do you 

Orion Matthews: do that? How do you find the truth? 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yes. I, I I, I I, I totally get your question and there are few things here. So the first thing is, it comes all to [01:00:00] leadership, right? To, to what I was saying at the beginning. We’re not here to police, we’re here to help, right? Mistakes happen. Just let us know it from a leadership perspective.

There are some team members, oh, if someone made a mistake, they will get fired. If that’s your approach, you will never know, right? There will, no one will be transparent from you. Always my advice. We are here to help. If there’s a mistake, let us know. We’ll work together on making it, resolved. And yeah, there could be punishment, stuff like that.

But again, mistakes happen. We understand if it’s a repetitive mistake, we told you you didn’t do it once, twice, three times, then we have a problem. But. If a mistake happen, we need to, you know, get ahead of it and try to solve it. So it comes to leadership and the way you treat things. So if you want everyone to be transparent with you, it’s the approach you’re telling them how to do it right.

But I wouldn’t truly rely always on the transparency of [01:01:00] everyone, although we practice this leadership style at the same time, that’s why the PMO team is involved and engaged in the project. We see problems with my team. You know, we have weekly meetings, reporting everything. I ask questions. I’m not just, okay, if this doesn’t make sense, I tell them this doesn’t make sense, and then I’ll dig deep into it and then we figure out where the problem is coming from.

I asked my team always to validate the information they’re providing, right? It’s not just, oh, this is the number, but how come? This is the estimate? I see this is the. Third party estimate, and there’s something wrong here, so let’s deep dive into it. So you always should, you know, just make common sense of what you’re seeing and ask questions to get to the bottom of it.

And then, from a safety perspective, you know, you, you, you give a good, a good example on foreman. Foreman is not bringing his PPE tools, right? I was on a project that had almost on the owner side, which is not [01:02:00] typical because safety is the responsibility of general contractor. But on the owner side, we almost had five safety resources on the owner rep team, which, you know, it’s not common, but there was.

I would say a safety officer or safety manager or safety coordinator, that’s always on site, always taking notes, always helping and telling teams what to do, and reporting it. It’s not reporting just to get everyone punished, but to make it, better. At the same time, we’re always giving incentives for the people who follow, you know, the, the safety precautions.

Uh, these incentives could go to, acknowledging their efforts and appreciating it to everyone at the same time. There should be, you know, some gift card stuff like that. Right. So you need to incentivize your theme, which take me back to the, my PhD thesis about, you know, how to make your employees happy.

Orion Matthews: Yeah. Which we gotta have a whole episode on that. Um, how to make your employees happy. I, I think I really need to learn that. [01:03:00] I, I, I think that’s a really great PhD to have to go into this profession. For sure. And just in general. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yeah. No, I, I, I, I enjoyed it. It was exciting topic for me. So, 

Orion Matthews: So going back to the school days, if you were back in school you know, what advice would you give to a student or someone else looking to pursue a career?

Maybe someone that’s like, I want to be running billion dollar programs in 10 years, 15 years. What, what would you, what advice would you give? So, 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: yeah, so, so my advice would always be like, keep learning, right? So just continuous education. I wouldn’t say keep learning in school. I would say keep learning the new tools.

Keep learning the new methods, you know, keep listening to other experienced people. So this, you know, just take current on tools and methods work, kind of, I, you know, one of my advice to I would say. To myself when I was back to school is to work for companies who invest in their [01:04:00] employees. So I can just get a better offer financially.

But I know that this company will not invest in me, will not train me, will not, I don’t have a career succession plan there, so I always advise, you know people is, is just go to a company, work for a company that invests in your growth, not just the compensation.

Orion Matthews: That’s really valuable tha that.

Uh, and it’s so hard if you’re a college student looking at your first offer to just look at how much are they paying me? What’s my stock option? And just go with the highest bidder. But that it’s true. I’ve seen people get picked up and put into leadership programs like I think GE spends two or three years with their managers where they will send them to their own.

It’s almost like your private MBA. And that’s gotta be worth that’s probably an extra $300,000 that they’re throwing in. But if, but if you’re not, if, if you, it only works if you care about it. So that’s really great tip. So what, and speaking of tips or tricks for resource planning, do you have something that you [01:05:00] could leave us with some trick or phrase or thing that, that 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: No, my biggest step for resource planning is really like to understand the client culture, you know, the needs of the project scope, just before making any staffing decisions.

Orion Matthews: And then what about for PMO?

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Okay. For PMO, it’s, you need to understand how each piece is being, put together or works together. So if someone wants to know how to set up a PMO team, I would advise join A PMO. Existing PMO team learn the process, you know, on the cost management, the scheduling, the communication, the data analytics, and then you’ll be able to build, you know, the entirety.

Orion Matthews: And then what about books or associations or anything else? Like, how do you stay up to date with all this? What are your favorite go-to resources? 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Okay. When it comes to book here, I lack this skill. Okay. I’m not a good reader, I would say, but I learned through, you know, [01:06:00] attending conferences, workshops, you know, and even, you know, just asking Chad g pt, you know?

Yeah. 

Orion Matthews: It’s our new encyclopedia. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yep. 

Orion Matthews: What about for making people happy? When you came across your, uh, research work what book or resource did you have there? Um, 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: so no, actually when it comes to thesis, you know, there is part of it that you have to go do literature review previous papers, what, what others did.

But at the same time, there is the practical part. You know, you have to do a case study. I’ve went to three top companies internationally, uh, and then I created a survey and the company was helpful and, provided the, distributed the survey to their employees. I had some questionnaires they answered, just, you know, you use some tools and analytical tools.

Say, okay, what’s the pattern of what are the most important thing to the [01:07:00] employees in our construction world? You know, versus what’s less important? And you would be surprised, number one wasn’t finance. So yeah, number one was. You wanna know? 

Orion Matthews: I’d love to know. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Okay. No. Number one was the career growth. 

Orion Matthews: Okay.

Ahmed AbdelSalam: So as like, do I have a career growth within this company? Do I have a job security? Will I get promoted? Because you may have the best offer for your current position, but you stayed the same way for 10 years. Right? So just how would I grow within my career? 

Orion Matthews: Yeah, that is super helpful. I don’t know if everyone thinks about career growth as the number one thing they need to be thinking about with their teams and when they’re selecting people to join new projects.

The, it’s, it’s [01:08:00] like you’re so focused on getting the project done. You’re just like, do you want some money? And to do cost engineering, I have that for you. But knowing that like long-term happiness connects to that career growth. That’s a really great tip. Thank you. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Yep. 

Orion Matthews: Well, uh, ached how can people get in touch with you if they wanna follow you or learn a bit more or what’s the name of your PhD paper?

We can all read it. Get a hold of that. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: So actually I don’t remember the, the name of the paper. I can send it to you. We’ll include it clinical. Yeah. But uh, people can easily reach out to me on LinkedIn. You know, I just always post on LinkedIn. I’m very well connected with people on LinkedIn, so just I can send, you know, you have my LinkedIn profile.

I can just, I always accept, you know, new invites and just respond to people on LinkedIn. 

Orion Matthews: Alright, well Achmed Abdel Salam, thank you so much for sharing your expertise and coming on the pod. We learned so much today, so thank you. 

Ahmed AbdelSalam: Thank you. [01:09:00] I appreciate the invitation. I really enjoyed it. It’s exciting.